261: Life is Just Money & Being Shameless Is Your Biggest Superpower | Jennifer Magley's Success Strategy
Jennifer Magley is a former professional athlete, NCAA Division I head coach, and the current Chief Brand Officer for The Basketball League. But her most impressive title might just be "Professional Shameless Person."
In this episode, Jennifer breaks down why being "shameless" isn't a negative trait—it's a superpower for creating opportunities. We discuss her "Stooge Quest" to get on the Pat McAfee show, why she views social media as "junk mail," and how she transitioned from the structured world of pro sports to the wild west of entrepreneurship and branding.
If you’ve ever hesitated to send a DM, make a cold call, or ask for what you want because you were afraid of looking "cringe," this conversation will reframe your entire mindset.
In this episode, we talk about:
✳️ The "Stooge Quest": How Jennifer is leveraging pure persistence and community to get on the Pat McAfee Show.
✳️ Redefining "Shameless": Why detaching your ego from the outcome is the secret to massive growth.
✳️ Transactional Relationships: Why women need to get comfortable with transactional networking and stop over-apologizing.
✳️ Social Media as Junk Mail: A refreshing perspective on why you shouldn't take online engagement personally.
✳️ The "Kayfabe" of Business: Lessons from pro wrestling on how to build a personal brand and control your narrative.
✳️ Navigating Transitions: Moving from the identity of a pro athlete to finding success in business and media.
Chapters:
00:00 – Meet Jennifer
02:43 – From Pro Tennis to the C-Suite
5:37 – Life is just Money
8:42 – Acknowledge your privilege
9:42 – How To Be Queen
11:43 – Redefining Winning in Business & Life
15:56 – The Quest to Get on The Pat McAfee Show
18:33 – Have No Shame
21:37 – Social Media is Junk Mail
24:01 – Lack of Curiosity tampers Likability
27:31 – Women Need More Transactional Relationships
31:53 – The Takeaways
38:03 – You Don't Need Permission to Claim Your Crown
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Read the Transcript
the curtains were to close for me visually, I'm just going to go out swinging. What does it take to become an
unstoppable force of nature in business and leadership? Our guest today,
Jennifer Magley, knows the answer because she's lived it. To give yourself the best chance is to be absolutely
shameless and unafraid. She was a WTA tour professional tennis player, an NCAA
Division 1 champion, and one of the youngest division 1 head coaches in the nation. Success became, for me, action
in the face of uncertainty. She made the unconventional leap, becoming the chief brand officer of the
basketball league and basketball super league. I believe the only guaranteed success are continual no’s. They can't
all be no’s. Today we're unpacking the lessons from Jennifer's journey. I I think life is just money.
I'm Andrea Liebross and this is She Thinks Big.
First of all, I'm just going to say that I saw you as the MC at Rally.
Okay. Yes. Yep. Yep. So, I saw that. Um and then we
met really briefly in person there at Stephanie's house over Christmas for a
little whatever that was. What was that? a brunch, a lunch, a lunch, something. I
don't know. And then I swore I saw you at the target in Target.
It was my body double. She does all my stunts. I was like, I think that's right. But it was dark. It was in the parking lot. And
then I don't know like our phones know that where we are. And then all of a sudden there you were like on LinkedIn
the next day and I was like, all right, I'm just gonna I mean this is like meant to be. The phones know where we are.
It's so interesting. It's like, do you know this person? Yes. So, thank you for being here. Thank
you for being here. Happily. Happily. Yes. Apparently, I have a body double out there. I'm going to send this to all my OBGYn
appointment. So, I'm just
I just I just went to one this morning. She could have gone for me. I don't know. Oh my gosh. Scooch scooch to the bottom. If I heard that one more time,
put your legs here. Right here. But relax. Okay. Make sure this is This might feel a little cold, but we're
going to be okay. All right. Anyway, anyway, um, okay, let's dig in.
So, you were a professional tennis player. Yes.
From Pro Tennis to the C-Suite
You were a division one NCAA champion. You were one of the youngest division
one head coaches, age 23. That is my kids are 21 and 24. So, you were like
right there. Yeah. So, all right. What take us on the journey like what drove you? What
happened? Tell us. How did you transition to from all of that
to a business leader? You're so sweet. I love that you call me business leader. My goal is to lead no
one except yourself. Okay. Is it fair to say leading yourself?
Yeah, that's that's when I know I'll make when I made it, but you're right. Yes, I am chief brand officer of the basketball league, TBL, and we feed into
the NBA GLeague. And the G- League is kind of like the junior varsity for the NBA. So, if you don't make it on the
team, if you're not immediately drafted, you're in you can make the G-League team. And if you don't make a G- League team, we see all these guys in March
Madness, um, then you can play in TBL. And the season is three three months long. We're in 40 different cities
across the country. How in the world did I get here? Well, I hope to be a Nepo baby. My parents own the basketball
league, so I'm working with family. But previously, I was a gosh, I was going to
be number one in the world if it were up to me in professional tennis. and it was up to me and it still didn't happen. So
I ended up coaching division one tennis after playing pro, winning a championship and moved to Indie and
launched having my own business which Indie is really good for. Like Indianapolis is great for that. So yeah,
it's been an interesting interesting journey. A lot of a lot of unexpected things along the way that's
for sure. So when you were Okay, another thing you didn't even mention, but I was I noted
this when I was doing my research. Um, okay. You represented team USA. Yes.
Right. Yes. Right. And you traveled all around the world and
that along with being an athlete and a coach. I mean, what what do you think
were some of the lessons that you learned in your athletic career that you
had to kind of unlearn to do what you're doing now?
I think when you play professional sports, it's very hard to let things go,
knowing when to give up, when to pivot. And I think that's probably one of the biggest issues with athletes is you're
always afraid you're going to quit three feet from gold. So that is
something that is an issue. So I think learning to to say no, learning to give
up to quit is something that you have to do when you transition into business. And really what's worth your time,
what's worth all that energy. I think that's that's the challenge to determine. Yeah. Because I always say your four
Life is just Money
most valuable resources are time, money, people, and energy.
Ah, right. Yes. So, probably when you were I'm going to make this up because I wasn't you, but I
mean all of your time was going to athletics, right? Money was going there.
People the people you surrounded yourself with were helping you get to where you wanted to go. And your energy was certainly all pouring into all of
that. But now would you say it's divided or do you think it's like still in one
little spot? What would you what do you think? I have a really controversial view. I
still think I I think life is just money because when you tell me about it let's
talk about it. You know, like when you have the money, then you can afford to have the time.
And then when you have the money, you know, you can pour in to your best health.
And when you have the money, you have the ability to swipe and find your husband on Bumble like I did.
You could you could All right. So, okay. So, I I think we agree, but I say it in
a different way in a sense. Maybe we don't agree. All right. I always say out of those four things, energy is your
most valuable resource because with your energy you can create money,
right? You can create money and you can literally and figuratively create time or figuratively, not literally and you
can choose who you want to be with. So I always say like the energy piece is the
most important. I don't know. It's crazy being having been like so broke in my life. It was it just zapped
all my energy and that was a hard thing like owning a business and then becoming an unexpected single mom. I I would have
all this energy but then everything my maslos was since my maslo were on fire it would just suck the life out of me.
So that's why I say yes you know. All right. Okay. We can I can do it. The money the the money is what what opened
my life up to be able to use my energy because my energy girl Andrea my energy
was going into staying alive. So I I do think that and and also with
tennis tennis is a sport where from the moment that you're a child you are paying the coach. Mommy and daddy are
paying coach. It's not like other sports and they can fire their tennis and golf coach ever
since they're younger uh since they're kids. So for me, money has been a really
big part of of if you make it as a pro alete or not, if you make it as a
business owner, how long is that runway if you don't have, you know, the big venture capital bucks behind you when
you're your own VC is so hard. So that's a little of color. I know it's controversial, but but yes, I managing
all of those four, it's sure it's a lot easier when you got one of them. That's true. That is true. I can't argue
with you. Totally true. I'm okay. A little controversial today. No, I like it. I like it. I mean, you do
need all of those things. Like, you do need the money can make it happen. And I also think that um you know,
Acknowledge your privilege
straight up, I think that the number one thing that business owners don't acknowledge and I would even say
celebrities or celebants is privilege. Nobody wants to acknowledge their
privilege. No one wants to acknowledge. I mean, for me, what privilege looks like is I came from a a family that had
two parents that loved each other. It felt like crazy. But what a privilege to be that helps me get ahead in life. I've
got I've got parents that wanted me before I was born, you know. So, when I have those
conversations with people about success, it's like, yeah, I am very privileged. And, you know, there's there's all kinds
of privilege that's out there. So, I love when people are able to acknowledge that privilege. And that's the thing
that helped me even say I'm a pro tennis player. If I don't have parents that are, you know, that are not into it, you
can't do that. It's not like basketball. You know, you can't. So, yes, I am very privileged, but I mean, I would love more money. I got on
my green today. I know. I like it. I like it. All right. So, tell us how does this all play into
How To Be Queen
your book? So, you also are an author. Yeah. I mean, that's been fun. Yeah.
Yeah. Tell us about L. Yes. Oh, you're so sweet. I you know what's interesting is I believe in
Cicero's great quote like I criticize by creation not by finding fault. So,
writing How to be Queen really is as long as and as short as a Cheesecake
Factory menu, right? Like you go to Cheesecake. It's so short. You can finish this book
over your lunch break. And I was tired of reading these books that were just from men.
Um, you know, who hit my cheese? Greatest salesman in the world, which I love Mandino, absolute master
storyteller. But there's not enough small fables for business and for women.
Yeah. And that's what I decided to to go for. And it was really easy to well, not
easy, it was easier to hitch my wagon to an existing fable and rewrite a version
of the tortoise in the hair. So, all right. So, walk us through the story in the book. Tell us. Oh my gosh, it's been it's been a
minute. I this is somebody who wants to get ahead and keeps keeps moving that
finish line and falls asleep uh and and realizes that how can I win, you know,
how can I win going on this kind of journey of the tortoise and the hair and what does it what does winning look like
for me if I keep moving the finish line, if I keep missing the mark and then waking up and realizing, you know what,
my identity is not defined by what I do. And that's one of my favorite questions
to ask myself is if I didn't achieve one more thing in my entire life, who would
I be? And I I don't know because I love achievement and I think Okay. So So let's talk about winning
because I know you are like you are the ultimate challenge yourself to win. Yes. Right.
Um so share with our listeners some of these challenges that you've created and what does it mean to win?
Tell us in your like in your from your perspective, what does winning look like? From my perspective and where I'm at
Redefining Winning in Business & Life
now, like for example, we talk about money and health, right? On my journey
to try to land on the Pat McAfee show, which was a 365day quest, a full year of
creative quests of publicly posting uh very social awkward scenarios and skits
and shows. I learned that I was told that I was losing my vision, right? So, here we are.
Okay. And that actually sped up the quest a bit more. And as I as I went through
that that quest and determining what success looks like, success became for
me action in the face of uncertainty. So, that's what success is now. Is can I
take action when I don't know the outcome? um if I don't know if there even is a win in this uh how do I how do
I and and specific to that vision um moment where I'm not out of I still have to go back pretty often but I got great
news that they don't think I have this aggressive degenerative eye disorder yet. Excellent.
Um which was great. Found that out last September. But if I if the if the curtains were to close for me visually,
I decided that this would be it during that quest. Like I'm just gonna go out swinging. And that opened up a a new
part of me uh that was like, who cares what anybody thinks? I'm just going to
do what I can with the time I have left with my clear vision. I have a clear vision. I already wore glasses. So, um
so yeah, that was that was that's what success looks like now. Uh not predicated on achievement, but just
predicated on action. And yeah, the action can be considered achievement, but when we have such a clear goal, like
getting on the show or getting an answer from the show, we didn't get that answer, but I I'm proud of myself that I
didn't just curl up in a ball and stay um you know, depressed for those.
No, and just fine. I mean, you could that was an option to curl up in a ball, right? That was
there. Respectable. It's respectable. Like, you get it like you're having a hard time, but you know what? you decided to launch
a custom t-shirt with a drone and a 360 camera into the parking lot where they filmed the show instead.
Oh, I mean that. So, it's interesting because I say that in order to create confidence, you've got to take action,
right? So, sometimes people are like they say, I'm not I I have to get be more confident before I can do that. You
know, that's a or I don't have enough confidence to put the drone out there, whatever.
Right. But but I kind of feel like what you did in that quest was create like a
momentum. The actions created momentum and probably created more confidence.
Oh, thank you Andrea. That's Yeah, I think that's it's an interesting
evolution. Oh, yes. Thank you. I mean, I tell you what, when when you go to a specialist, there's only one of four in the state,
like a eye specialist, and he said, "I'm not convinced that this is what's happening yet." I had a moment that was
a little out of body where I'm looking back over the last like nine months or whatever it was. And I say to myself,
like, who is that woman? you know, like who was that woman with a mobile billboard and doing all these things uh
downtown and and and just, you know, yard sign and campaign all around Indiana going for it. And I kind of was
like amazed at the person that I had become. And then it felt a little bit like a decision like am I going to keep
being this person or am I going to go back to like oh no big deal. I've got
all the time in the world, right? So I think illness and is an interesting moment or perceived illness where you
realize okay you know what shooting my shot just shoot my shot. So
now or never right now or never. Yeah indeed. Do you feel like you made any mistakes
along the way? Oh I mean I kind of wish I would have made more mistakes.
I the one thing I didn't do is I didn't it didn't live on Tik Tok um the the
quest and so if anyone's wondering like what is a stoogge quest they call themselves stooges so this is serial
The Quest to Get on The Pat McAfee Show
storytelling so if you like a reality show every it would be the equivalent of you just following me and then you see
day five day six day seven you know day 100 so I I I was there were ideas for me
to be fake arrested there were ideas for all kinds of plot lines and um yeah,
I kind of it could have been more wild, but I felt like it did what it needed to
do. I'm a huge fan of Tim Robinson, the comedian, and also Nathan Fielder and their big to social awkwardness comedy.
So, anything that's cringe, it was definitely cringe. So, I loved it. And it hit it hit the mark.
It hit the mark. You did it. You did it. You did it. We did. And to that point, Andrea, you know, now that we're in the second
season of uh Quest and we have a different Mark, there's still time for that show to do the right thing and
bring me on. Yes, if you're listening, Pat. Yes, of course. Of course you are.
Because I never got a cease and desist, so I figured they love it. You know, you should you should have run down on
the sidelines of any of those, right? When he's doing his sideline announcing.
Oh my gosh. Because that look, the concept is it's funny because no one's expecting someone that looks like me.
You know, I caught myself middle-aged Midwestern melanated mother on the bro show. The ultimate bro show in the world
on ESPN. Can I outbr the bro to the point that you can look at me and you see me rather than seeing the outside?
This was the quest. This was the journey because I out bro the bros and they are
aware of that for sure. There's no way they didn't see any of this content. And
the best part about it, Andrea, is they let me cook. They let me do my thing because you never know if they have a sense of humor or not. So that was the
context of the show was that it's funny because I don't belong on their bro show, but I created a segment from the
street, stage on the street, and if they wanted in that third hour to have a person on the street doing interviews
and they can, you know, he he to haha giggle about it in the studio, I'm right here. I'm I'm I'm ready to go.
You You have the material. There we go. There we go. Yeah. You got it. Um All right. All right, let's switch
gears for a little bit because now, well, alongside all of this, not now because you're still you're still
questing. You have really helped dozens of folks land paid speaking gigs, TV
spots, oh my gosh, Forbes features. So, what do the people who break through
have versus the ones who stay stuck and what do they what don't they have? What
Have No Shame
do you think? What's the difference for the people that land it versus don't land it? No shame.
No shame. No shame. Look, like, you know, I used to be afraid of social media and I didn't want to be on social media. A
friend of mine's like, "What's in your closet?" You know, I'm like, "Oh, you know, clothes, shoes, what else?" I'm like, "Dwelry, wigs, now you know, all
kinds of things." He said, "Exactly. That's what's in your co in your closet." Social media is your closet.
So, when you know that and you go on social media, people are expecting content from you. So, if you're afraid
of being a narcissist, why not? So, I think the fact that folks are shooting their shot, they are
shameless. There are hundreds of videos coming out every day of celebrities
sharing how they broke into the business and how they're continuing to try to get roles. I mean, Sharon Stone just said uh
she had 18 months to prepare for the Basic uh Basic Instinct audition because her manager broke into the office and
got the script beforehand. That's how bad she wanted it. That's how shameless she was, how ambitious she was. And I
believe that's what it takes to give yourself the best chance is to be absolutely shameless and unafraid.
Interesting. I just um was watching Land Man. I don't know if you watched Land Man. Okay. Okay. And um Ally Lauder is one of the leads
in it and she was talking about her audition and how it went on for three months.
Wow. And how in the end she just kind of was like, "If this is meant to be, it's
meant to be." I mean, I'm just kind of like shameless, like I'm just putting myself out there. She was exhausted,
too. Surely. And um but she she kind of almost like just like laid it all out
there and she ended up getting it. But that's kind of reminds me of what you said, like just Yeah,
you got to you got to put it all out there. I mean, it's fascinating. And Kiki Palmer just had a clip saying that she
almost uh crashed the stage at the Super Bowl last year like Little Mama did at the MTV Music Awards years ago to try to
dance with her friend who was up there dancing. I mean, she said, "Yeah, they took me down. That security took me down." So, I just I think here here's
what I've learned from WWE and I love WWE. I got to be an MC for a community
event before Royal Rumble this time last year. They have this concept Andrea called kayfabe and kayfabe comes from
carnivals. It means that you never break character. You never break character which also assumes that anything that
you're seeing is not real. And we have all suspended our disbelief that these things are not real. And not to be
political but we have a president who is a WWE Hall of Famer who was in the
battle of the billionaires who is actively kayfabing among other things. Right? So, if we can learn anything from
this moment in history, it is perhaps we shouldn't take ourselves so seriously
either when it comes to our personal brands. What does it look like when you decide to kayfabe on social media at all
times of the day and night? And that's what I intend to do. It's Kfabe%.
Yeah. Like this is all junk mail. Remember, you know that mail you go to your mailbox? Yeah. Yeah. Social media is junk mail. So, who cares
Social Media is Junk Mail
if your video goes does well, the engagement, the not it's a volume game. Just keep showing up and you'll own the
SEO space. Like right now, if you Google me, if you Google Stoge and Pat McAfee Show, you're going to see my name
because I own the space for the SEO because of the amount of content that I put out over the last 365 days. That is
how you get the opportunity for someone to tell you yes or no. That's
that's what I believe. Interesting. Yeah. I love the social media is junk mail thing. It's Jack mail. Yeah. Like we're
all overthinking it. We're all taking it oh so seriously. How did I post you? What's the best time of day? I met with a guy at tech two years ago that said if
you wanted to go viral, you would have to use an AI tool that would analyze everything that was posted within the
last 60 seconds. So even your human post has to have some aspect of AI to know
what will be popular. This is not an algorithm anymore. It's a neural pathway like a brain. So there's no way that we
can hack it and be viral in a legitimate genuine way. Uh, I just don't believe that anymore. So, that's my opinion.
So, true. I I love that opinion. All right. So, what do you think? What do you think your 23-year-old coach self
would have would think of all of this? Oh my gosh. She wears makeup.
What? And I would tell you that's right. You say yes to that woman in the pink Cadillac. She'll teach you everything
there is to know about cold chatter, persuasion, and charisma. So, that is what happened to me after I became a
coach. I learned from one of the best of what it meant to become likable because
it doesn't, you know, you can be excellent, but it doesn't mean that you're liked. Do you think you weren't likable before? No, I'm not likable. I'm not naturally
likable. Anything you're seeing is a soft skill that I learned. You know, I'm I'm going to read a 100 books this year.
I only read I only read 53 last year, but I'm a learner, right? So, since I'm
learning and I'm reading the studies about how do you make people feel good? How do you make people open up? What are the FBI tactics that they're using? If
you're not likable, never fear. It is a skill. It is not. Yeah, there's woo. Yeah, there's charisma, but but
likability can be taught. Interesting. So, you don't think All right. So, 23-year-old, she wasn't likable.
Not likable. Oh, god. But she was Okay. But like but in the public eye, do you think she
was successful? Yes. Here's why. Here's what here's what I believe tampers liability is a lack of
Lack of Curiosity tampers Likability
cur a lack of curiosity when people think they have the answers they know things and that's what we're
seeing right now in our world polarity right because once you know you know that you know they know that they know
where is the crossover no one is curious so there's no conversation and for me I
know that everything I'm saying right now is true because I've experienced it but it doesn't mean that it's a universal truth for everyone else
someone else could go on a stage quest get arrested by day 12, you know, 100 100% 100%.
No, I I don't know why it works. And from the biographies and autobiographies that I've read, uh those folks, the
universe just pointed at them. Sicily Tyson's just walking down the street and someone comes up to her and says, "Hey,
have you ever thought about being an actress?" Boom. We've got Sicily. Yes, she's got grit. She's got tenacity. She's skilled up. But when the universe
points at you, I'm just ready. I'm putting myself in a position to say yes by collecting nos every day through my
junk mail. Do there used to be um I was in a business once where we you had these
charts. This is old school like where you would get a hundred nos. Like it was a it was a grid. It was a grid and you'd
Yeah, maybe you need one of those on my refrigerator. There's no refrigerator, but you know
what I mean. Girl, Andrea, that is 100% my speed. I send 20 messages out a day to cold cold
call every day. No matter what, we got to hit our 20 because I believe the only guarantee success are continual nos.
They can't all be nos. No. Right. And what are you saying when you send those 20 messages out? What are you saying?
Anything from Phil M. Jones exactly what to say. My favorite book. He's out of England. 23 phrases that really help
hack people. So, I'm not going to say the words I and me in a cold call. I'm going to use hi Jim. One sentence about
him. and then don't know if it's for you, but any chance you're open to connecting about, you know, me introducing you to some folks, whatever.
It's going to be short. It's going to be to the point. If it's for me to be to MC at a conference, I'm on a quest to get
on 100 stages right now. This is season two. I'm going to say, "Don't know if it's for you, but any chance you're looking for a high energy professional
MC who's worked with, you know, WWE, Mr. Wonderful, Shark Tank, blah blah blah, question mark." And then they're going
to respond to me. So, yeah, I'm going to keep, again, I'm all about volume. the quality of the message and then a lot of
messages. I'm obsessed with the terminology, the phrases, the words. What's gonna make someone say yes to me
or say no to me? Okay. And this is really when I I mean, because I'm working with all people that
own their own businesses, right? I mean, this is what needs to happen. You just
have to keep putting yourself out there, right? And and I always say like meet
someone, tell them what you do, make an offer to help them. It's like simple as that. It's not complicated.
Yes. Yes. Because when you ask them my favorite words, these are my words, but
top of mind. I say, Tom, any chance you're able to keep me top of mind for this? I think that's, you know, I love
that. I'm such a nerd. So I love like Benjamin Franklin effect and I love the 51%. and you oscillate between the two
like okay that's why people want to buy lunches for other people they want to own that 1% chance but then we also know
from Benjamin Franklin if you know he borrowed a book from someone who hated him and that's how he endeared himself
to him so you can use both principles to be able to ga navigate that collateral
that you're building with human beings and I would also like to add I do not think as women we have enough
Women Need More Transactional Relationships
transactional relationships tell me more about about that. I don't
know about that. I love a relationship in a silo. I think men do it all the time. That's my golfing buddy. That's my my uh fantasy
football friend. Yeah. And they're not going to bring their golfing buddy to their like small group
church link up, right? I feel like as women, we're always
wanting all of our, you know, associates and all of our friends to be able to fit in every single box as opposed to, yeah,
this is the gal I get coffee with and we give each other free tickets for events that we don't want to spend 300 bucks on. That is our that is our crossover
and we don't even go outside of that box. We both understand that. This is what we do. So, I think more
transactional relationships for women with clear like hooks, the better
because that's what we want. We don't I don't need you to be my best friend and introduce me to your billionaire cousin.
Right. Right. Right. Right. Maybe that would happen. But I just need you if you're my best friend, you just
be my best friend. So, I don't need to have women to that can go in everywhere with me. I just
women that when I go there, they're there. Okay. So, I'm going to totally go off on a tangent. Are you familiar with this
five voices type of personality assessment? Tell me all about it. I would love to hear it.
So, you have to go go research that. That's there's another book for you. Yes.
But I have a really good friend uh Courtney. So, shout out to Courtney. So, she is certified in this whole thing.
Okay. What the the the result, we'll call it was that I am a I'm just looking it up
right now. A pioneer guardian. Okay. Which means whatever that means but I am very
transactional. Love it. So I if like if there is no purpose in
talking to whatever then my personality is like ah like
Andrea you're writing you're writing emails then you're like delete delete delete. How are you? Yeah. I mean, so, so she and I talked
about this and it's like a very small percentage of women who relate to this type of thinking. So,
when you say more women need to be like this, you're totally I mean, you're spot on because this this whole
Yes, it's it is it is if we want to get into the rooms where we're not, we got to meet more people and they need to
advocate for us and we got to be clear like look, I'm not looking for you to be a godmother of my kid.
the same idea. We don't have to we don't have to be like best friends and do everything together.
We totally don't. And I think that's I think leading with that like if if you're a person that
we're swapping tickets for events, I will say let's keep an eye out when you got a ticket, hook me up. When I got a
ticket, I'll hook you up. And and we know what we're for. We know what box we fit into. And so I think that is
something that as women we just when we lean into that more. I'm not saying it's
masculine or feminine, but just clarity of relationship and purpose. That's
great. Like my friends know I'm not just going to come over to your house just because what are we doing, girl?
What are we doing? That's what Courtney and I were talking about. Like what are we doing? What are we doing?
None of them. None of And they know that about me. They know that 90 minutes in I'm actually an introvert. That I'm going to just Homer Simpson disappear
and leave. Okay. Yes. Irish goodbye. Yeah. They're going to know that. I'm going to text you from the car. Had a great time. Thank you so much. And I And
when I accepted the invitation, I said, "Love you. I have a hard stop at this time. You're going to see me evaporate."
So, no one's feelings are ever hurt. They're like, "Yeah, that's better." So I feel like you know if you're introverted and have a hard time and if
you're socially awkward like I am naturally but have skilled up out of
clarity is really it's okay to say girl that's not the look for me. I don't want to go to X event. I can't I'm too tired
by 8:00 I will fall asleep if
at Bernie if if I'm not on the stage at nine o'clock like I will be asleep at the table. You will be streaming me live
on your Yep. Snoring it up. No. All right. So, we've learned that
The Takeaways
it's okay to be transactional. Yes. We've learned that you might as well
just put yourself out there and who cares what people think, right? That's the just do it.
Um, we've learned, what was your terminology, though? You told me it's like everything's a facade. Everything's
Everything's not real. Yeah. Yeah. Lean into lean into some kayfabe
because like everything you're seeing is fake. Come on. Like you think somebody's really making in a gown like making a
cake from scratch every single day. It's a bit we and that's why we love these people online. We love the bits.
We love how hard you're trying to entertain us. So try don't try. Who cares? Who cares? Social media is junk mail. I like that.
Yeah. I like that. Even though you didn't the Pat McAfee thing didn't get the result,
I guess, you know, it didn't happen yet. Didn't happen yet. There's a big yet there. And if they said no, if they said no, my
day is made because I got an answer. Yes, sir. I know. I was just going to ask you that actually.
Yeah. Would you feel like would that actually bring some closure to it?
It would be the most wonderful thing to get an answer if they said, "Jennifer, appreciate the enthusiasm. Seeds are
taken. We're not interested right now. Oh my god, thank you. Every time I turn on the TV, I know I tried my hardest and
they said, "Thank you. Go away." You know, there's not going to be a moment where it's like, "No, you just need more information about me." You got plenty of
information. You have more than enough. You better than more than enough.
And and ultimately, do you know what I think would be better than being on the show is if Pat ever really wanted to
elevate women in sports? Produce a show with women that are talking about
sports. And these are women that are behaving badly, that are pushing the Olympics just like that team does. I
believe that he has a daughter and I think he'll do it one day. I'm hoping that I'll have something to do with it because I love what their brand has
accomplished, but I think that's when he really starts winning is when he's producing multiple other shows with more
folks on it. They do a little bit of it now from what I can see, but really leaning into, you know, an array of
shows. I think that would be the ultimate win beyond, you know, the the big yes or no from the big guys, right? I don't see m like women and his
stuff that much, you know. I don't see a lot of um melanated women on that show, whether
they're athletes or contributors. I think they would they would say, well,
you know, got to know our target audience. All right. All right. I mean, I would say your target audience doesn't
want limitations about what they can talk about. And by having more people in the room, they can get into those
seedier, more conversational. You know, it's this is this is the spice. This is
the juice. They can get into that stuff when you got somebody who's from that community in the room. We don't have to
we don't have to bite and hold our tongues and wonder if we offended somebody. Bring in someone like me who's already offensive and we're halfway
there. They know before they even sit down, right, what they're getting.
Yeah. And if you really piss off the the, as he calls it, old whites on the show, bring me in. They don't like me either. Right. So, Right. So, Perfect.
Perfectly fine. Perfectly fine. But again, who tries so hard to be just a background fluky like me? I do. You
know, I think it would really I think it'd be cool. Why not have an intern for for 30 days that's
wanted to do it so badly. I can get the coffee. It's fine. You can do it. Get in the door.
Get in the door. All right. So So what would you say you are most hungry for in 2026?
Oh my goodness. I want to be I want to What am I most hungry for? Well, it was
to host a World Tag Championship in Paris. Okay, these are grown adults doing tag. It
didn't happen, unfortunately, but it re the thing I'm most hungry for is to have
a large opportunity for standup. Standup comedy is something that happened last year during Stage Quest. I was hired and
brought in to Texas to do standup comedy. And I love the trajectory of a Nikki Glazer. I think they've she's done
an amazing job. Her team, why not try my hand at the skill,
get better, host more things. I mean, I'm milking a cow this summer. Look, the the sky's is the limit.
The sky's is the limit. Watch out. State Fair. Watch out. Watch out. All right. This has been so
fun. We could talk for hours. I'm so happy that you're here today sharing all
of this with our audience. um if they have a standup comedy gig for you.
Yeah. Where should they go to find you and connect with you? Like what is the best way?
Yeah, definitely. So, I am a LinkedIn creature. I am on LinkedIn a lot. I
would say the quests live on Instagram and the number one thing that I'm brought to do on stages uh is master of
ceremonies and sea work for conferences and gayas. So, I like to say I'm hired to be Santa. So, I bring the spirit and
yeah, I mean, if you if I'm milking cows this summer, I'm I'm wearing my my American overalls with American flag on
it. I'm I'm going hard. But if you gaya, we've got two different gowns, a change of hair, you know, whatever. Whatever
you do, I've got it. We can do it. We got it. We got it. Babe, we got range. That's what we're
trying to say. Yes. We can we can all all like the whole the full scope. The full scope.
The full scope of anything on stage. And you know, I'm getting flexible. You never know. I might do, you know, little
stripper pull exercise class at a senior citizen home. I've said it before. And if you've got that, folks, let me know.
I'm not flexible, but I can help assist you teach that. Um, I can touch my
You need to watch Land Man then. They go into the senior citizen home every week.
Oh my god. Yes. And they do. I mean, there's some You need to watch it. I see the whole thing. I see it.
I see it. I see it. You've never done a body roll on a podcast before. See, I haven't. That's so true. New things
every day. Who to You know, you never know. You never know. All right. So fun. Thank you so much for
being here. All right. Here's what I want you to take away from today's conversation.
You Don't Need Permission to Claim Your Crown
Be shameless. Leading isn't about being perfect. It's about owning who you are and showing up
like you mean it. If you're feeling stuck chasing the next level, wondering
when it gets easier, here's your reminder. You don't need permission to
claim your crown. You just need to stop doubting yourself and start leading and
just do it. Be shameless. She thinks big is hosted by me, Andrea
Liebross. If today's conversation hits home, share it with another leader who needs to hear this. Follow the show
wherever you're listening and subscribe if you're watching on YouTube. For more on all things she thinks big, follow me
on Instagram at andrea.liebros.coaching. And if you're ready to stop playing
small and start owning your presence. I'd love to connect with you. Book a
call with me at andrealiebross.com. See you next week for a brand new episode. Till then, think big.
